Encouraged by many comments on the first post, I can not resist not to put another post, just to calm your emotions :D

Similar to first, this one as title said is song dedicated to seagull and sea. Kajaka ja mere.

Here it goes:

Lipo mi je, lipo mi je
na lazini suvoj lezat'
na osami blizu mora
nad pucinom tebe gledat'
a moj galebe

Tebe gledat', s tobom letit'
povrh svega nimat' straja
pa prkosit' svakoj buri
i neveri, ca sve vaja
a moj galebe

Ca sve vaja u svom bisu
da i more vrije, pini
bit' gospodar usrid svega
zivo klicat u visini

U visini kada sunce
bez pristanka nama sije
i da nista na tom nebu
i na moru bisno nije
e moj galebe

Bisno nije dokle krila
tebe nose kud god zelis
pa neveri oli suncu
ti se rugas i veselis

Na osami blizu mora
dok se sunce zemlji smije
slusan tebe kako klices
lipo mi je, lipo mi je
moj galebe


english:

It's so nice, it's so nice
on the dry beach to lie
isolated near the sea
to look at you over the open sea '
my seagull

to look at you, to fly with you
above all without fear
and defy 'every storm
and the dark clouds, that are rolling
my seagull

which rolls everything in his bis
to the sea that is boiling, foaming
to be a master in the middle of it
Cheers vividly in the height

At the height when the sun
without the consent of us, sows
and that nothing in the sky
and the sea is not angry
eh, my seagull

there is no angry , as long as your wings
carry you wherever you want
either sun and the storm storm
you are mocking and chearing

Isolated near the sea
while the sun laugh at earth
I hear you as you scream
It's so nice, it's so nice
eh, my seagull

eesti: ( I hope) :D With artisitic liberty to translate it and to add rime, I bet it could sound much better in estonian than in english, due to richness of the language. I truly hope that someone will read this and play with the words:)

See on nii ilus, see on nii kena
kuivaine rannas lamada
isoleeritud mere ääres
vaadata saate üle merele "
minu kajakas

vaadata teid sõita teiega
ennekõike kartmata
ja mööda minna "iga torm
ja tumedad pilved, mis on jooksva
minu kajakas

mis rullid kõik tema bis
merele, et keemiseni, vahtu
tuleb kapten keset seda
Cheers elavalt kõrgust

Kõrgusel, kui päike
nõusolekuta meie emised
ja et miski taevas
ja meri ei ole vihane
eh, mu kajakas

ei ole vihane, nii kaua kui teie tiivad
viib teid kus iganes soovite
kas päike ja tormi tormi
olete pilkav ja chearing

Eraldiseisvad mere ääres
kuigi päike naerma maa
Ma kuulsin, nagu te scream
See on nii ilus, see on nii kena
eh, mu kajakas





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2009 09:33PM by mrgud.

..that happened in Estonia too, that new choral arrangements were, and are, counted as "traditional" singing, mostly because of the national awakening and first Song Celebrations in the end of 18-th c ("awakeners" and national romantics wanted to make old songs better and nicer to make them fit in exceedingly beautiful European format). Later on the meaning of a "folksong" transferred from an arranged traditional folksong to arranged authorial choral song..

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Lauri Õunapuu
lauri[ät]metsatoll.ee
+372 56155559
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I salute any media that can transfer traditional folk elements into music or fashion or any other aspect of life. From my side of view this is good way to present the culture and tradition to outsiders , but also to awake in people importance of selfawerness.

The original klapa is not that different. Klapa originaly sings in town corners in long summer nights. But klapa singing is most popular male singing in these parts.

Inland and highland regions, sings more simplified songs in more pathriachal manner. While klapa singers are divided in male and female klapa singing ,highlander singers are only male "business". Most songs are influenced in past battles with Otoman empire.This clip with "oy" singing is made in 1969 in Lika region.

Due to its "hard" tunes, outside of Lika region, this kind of folk songs are hardly accepted elsewhere.

That was interesting.

As for me personally. I'm not against anything. We have al sorts of "regi-rap", "regi-metal" and even "regi-ballet".
My only wish is, that the performers should first find out, how the traditional music was originally performed.

Of course, if, for example, we take an Picasso painting, and make a copy of this, such that it meets the public sence of beauty, nice colours, humanlike faces, beautiful frame, then at best case, even if the painting would look like a nice photograph, it would be only a poor copy.
Who understands Picasso, can understand that. Who can not understand Picasso, enjoys the copy and lives happily ever after. :)

But of cource, art is very complicated thing. Traditional art even more..
In the art everything is allowed, but when the theme goes to traditional art, whole nation is all-of-a-sudden affected and it should not be taken arbitrarily.


What in the traditional folk-songs has been unchanged for centuries the most? The melody? Lyrics? Or the way of performing the song - the place, time and practice? What in the now-days arranged folk-songs is the least to be amended? I think that the least important. The most important is always most likely to be left behind, because it does not fit the current culture of the time. Is this wrong?
No..
Yes, I think also that in the traditional culture is not neither "right" or "wrong". But where goes the line between modern stage-culture and traditional folk culture? When one of those cultures will kill the other-one, and when vitalizes?


..but of course, the examples are very exciting, I have already listened Croatian archive-recordings from Lomax collections and its very interesting! Lets hope, some day, when we have a bigger singing-sessions, there will be also some Croatians ;) Traditional-like male-singers are hard-to-find

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Lauri Õunapuu
lauri[ät]metsatoll.ee
+372 56155559
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Well, one thing is sure. You have very high criteria and you are very firm.

As I am not active singer,I do not have knowledge and skills as you,therefore I can not compete with you nor oposse you, but surely I can state my point of view.

In today's world of globalisation and consumation , folklore and tradition has little room for its own existance. As probably, my dear Lauri, you are not bank accountant nor broker , you do not depend on every day's "joy" of oridnary fast working man,so every affection that was awake among nation ,yours or mine , is suceess.

Sad thing would be and is, when people are ashame of their own folk songs, tradition and culture, no matter how primitve they can look.

I found it wonderfull thing yours Laulupidu festival where 100.000 eesti folks sing "Mu isamaa on minu arm" ,although 99% of those people are surely not traditional folks. But fact that almost 10% of population are so proud is a wonderfull start.

From mine point of view traditional way is not static nor still. It has to develop, to change some aspects, to grow ,to adopt to newer enviroment. In some point even today's habbits , customs and songs (if only not so poluted with globalisation ;) )should become traditional one day.

Even Picasso, as you well explained in two hundred year period, would probably , if he would be alive, paint diferently but with same root.

Btw, nice touch for finding Lomax collection from 1951 :D , although most of them are dance songs and chosen accidentaly.

Hope you won't mind my honest thoughts.

Anyhow, for some unexplained reason, traditional or not, I found many things froms Eesti very close and attractive.

Therefore, as I asked Timo, I can also ask you, to help me provide lyrics or description of what , in next video , is the song about.

Hope , this one is true traditional eesti song :D

Well!

That's a cool Seto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setos) "band" Liinats'uraq (http://meestelaul.metsatoll.ee/foorum/read.php?15,115).
They are from southern Estonia, but culturally as exotic for me as Kashubians of Poland for you.

The song is from Siberia and well known around former Russian Empire ("Chorny voron" = "Black Raven").
Nevertheless those guys sing it in Seto language and with traditional Seto manner.

Lauri knows the lyrics.

..I am in Paris today and have very littel time, I will reply as soon as I get normal internet/connection in Spain.. hope, there is :P

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Lauri Õunapuu
lauri[ät]metsatoll.ee
+372 56155559
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Sure, no problem.
I finally conected some things in "who is who" around here :)
Didn't realize before.
If anyone has any questions or interest in any croatian or balkan folk please feel free to ask.

OOps

mrgud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> From mine point of view traditional way is not
> static nor still. It has to develop, to change
> some aspects, to grow ,to adopt to newer
> enviroment. In some point even today's habbits ,
> customs and songs (if only not so poluted with
> globalisation ;) )should become traditional one
> day.

Of course, tradition is not static and persistent. However, there is a big difference, of course, does tradition change naturally, or whether he deliberately amended, ashamed of ones culture tissue roughness.

>
> Even Picasso, as you well explained in two hundred
> year period, would probably , if he would be
> alive, paint diferently but with same root.
>

But he didnt change his painting-style despite the critics and beauty-standards. :)


> Anyhow, for some unexplained reason, traditional
> or not, I found many things froms Eesti very close
> and attractive.

so-called "primitive" (not primitive in my point of view - I think now-days european musical-language is more primitive) traditional cultures are in some corner of view very similar.. I am dependent in old archive-recordings :)


> Hope , this one is true traditional eesti song :D

This song is from Siberian Estonian village. Andreas, who is the lead-singer here and sings with Liinatsuraq ( [www.liinatsuraq.ee] ) was in an expedition there and found this song.. I do not know more about it.

The complete lyrics (in this video the song is shorter) are here: [meestelaul.metsatoll.ee] as Andreas sung it in another place, another time..

Oh, it was sad alone in a cold barn to sleep
I started late in the evening to go to a village
As I stepped over the village-fence, the dogs started to bark
The village-women came out and showed me the fist

"Hello hello, village women, where are your girls? "
"Go to the granary, the door is open!
There you can rest your feet and talk sweet talk.
There are Juuli and Maali, and they surely kiss you!
From someone you can ask, whether she will be your wife
If you marry me, I'll give you a kiss
If you'll not marry me, I do not give you a kiss.

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Lauri Õunapuu
lauri[ät]metsatoll.ee
+372 56155559
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That was just great :D
I was wondering what do they sing about.

What suprise me is that you said estonain siberian village!! Are there any estonain villages and inhabitants in Siberia? How? Is that new related fact of post WW2 war or?
Little bit confuse on that I admit.

Do you consider other ethnic groups in Siberia as estonians??

And about
"Of course, tradition is not static and persistent. However, there is a big difference, of course, does tradition change naturally, or whether he deliberately amended, ashamed of ones culture tissue roughness.

Naturaly is quite wide area to talk about. Influence is important. For example, as I mentioned before croatian identity in past times has been disturbed. Centuries of turkish invaders left influence. Nowdays bosnian croats are different in culture and everyday habbits. Songs are more manly, proud, singing of war of man. Is that natural change or deliberated? Bosnian croats and serbs share almost same singing. Did they adopt to new eviroment? Did that became tradition for them?
I think yes.
Most of inland border region with BIH have male singing as I posted Lika singers.

Here is , although not asked for, singers from Kupres, bosnian croat area.Although it is not klapa singing it has all croatian label.

You will notice attitude.

Video posting is disabled by author, but you can check the link.

[www.youtube.com]

I found other channel that posted the same song. Singers from Kupres.

mrgud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> What suprise me is that you said estonain siberian
> village!! Are there any estonain villages and
> inhabitants in Siberia? How? Is that new related
> fact of post WW2 war or?
> Little bit confuse on that I admit.
>

[www.everyculture.com]

[www.google.com]


>croatian identity in past times has been disturbed..

We talk about different things. Discussion started about choirs and arrangements.. but let it be so.

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Lauri Õunapuu
lauri[ät]metsatoll.ee
+372 56155559
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Sorry about my ignorance about estonian migration towards Siberia.

Maybe we talk about same thing, just needs time to fit (when voices fit for klapa :D)

I also talk about music and infulence on the music and arrangements.