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mrgud

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Posts:29
:: Quote ::
Subject: klapa singing
As recommended by Lauri, I am posting a video of croatian male singing. The groups are called "klapa" which means "male gang" and verb "klapati" means to fit. So klapa means man group with voices that fits.
Klapa songs are characteristic for coastal Croatia and islands.

Song is old traditional song "my daddy". Son adress his father who left his family in poverty and calls him back. In old days, people went to sea to earn for bread, but many did not returned.

Hope you will like it and comment it.

Original text is:
Sad sam naresa dosa san velik
Mater govori da san ti nalik
I da san isti ka tvoja slika
Kad si se ono s materon slika

Cale moj

Svak mi se ruga da si uteka
Mater govori da si joj reka
Zdravljen se kleja da ces se vratit
Oli zivoton svojin to platit

Cale moj, cale moj

Nosin jaketu zutu i gace
Ca si posla mi tisne i krace
Mater je uvik u tvojoj vesti
Pa nam se smiju da smo furesti

Cale moj

Tija bi cale ka druga dica
Jemat uza se svojega oca
S tobon se igrat, uz tebe lezat
Slusat te pricat, uvik te gledat

Cekan te uvik da nam se vratis
Niko ne misli da svoj dug platis
Ven da uz mater u miru zivis
Pa da nam kucu opet ozivis

Cale moj

Mater ce umrit od velog jada
Ko ce pogledat na mene tada
Vrati se cale puno te molim
Barem prez solda jerbo te volim

In estonian it should be something like this:

Nüüd ma üles kasvasin, sain suure
Mater räägib, et ma näen teid
Ja ma olen sama oma pilt
Kui olete, et pilt ema

minu issi

Igaühel Õppuste katsed mulle, et olete pääsenud
Ema ütleb, et sa ütlesid talle
Vannun oma tervist, et te tagasi
või oma eluga maksate

Mu isa, mu isa

Kannan jope kollane ja püksid
et sa saatsid mind kõvasti ja lühikese
Ema on alati oma pusa
nii nad naerma, et meil on halb.

Mu isa

Ma tahan, minu isa, kui teised lapsed
on isa minu kõrval
mängida saate ja pikali heita koos teiega
Kuula sina ja rääkida ja alati vaata ennast

Olen alati ootama, et sa tagasi meie juurde.
Keegi arvab, et te ei mõista oma sügavus
kuid ema rahus elada
Nii et meie majas elavad taas

mu issa

Mater surevad oma leina
Kes vaatab mulle siis
Tagasi siin, ma palun palju, issi
Isegi ilma rahata, sest ma armastan sind palju

September 20, 2009 10:54PM
Timo Kalmu









Posts:616
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: klapa singing
Once Hemingway was sick and tired meeting Estonian sailors in every port of the Pacific.

I have met Croatian daddies in Korean ports.

Can you find some simple sailors or villagers singing Croatian folk songs not on a stage, but for their personal fun.
I would like to listen to them.
May be you have "singing clubs" there similar to ours?!
May be we can meet some day?

I've read, that quite recently the tradition of long epic songs was still alive among the Slavs of Balkan. How's the current situation? Do you still sing them?
October 05, 2009 02:17PM
mrgud

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Posts:29
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: klapa singing
Croatia , due to its unhappy past is wastly destroyed and divided. There are several main accents divided in four major groups according to word "what" (Mis). Coastal area has "ča" accent, most of inland has "što" accent, north-west area has "kaj" accent and some of the distance island has "ca" accent.
In general "kaj" people can not understand "ča" people. According to that you can presume that folk songs are also very different in such small area and traditional instruments are also very different.
Except highlands there are no strictly divides between male and female singing.
But due to foruum title, I think folk songs involving female vocals are not appropriate.
Northern parts has no tradition in male vocal singing without instruments.


here are videos of original klapa singers in their natural environment.

when you say epic songs, you probably thinking about macedonian-bulgarian songs and folklore?



October 05, 2009 11:46PM
Timo Kalmu









Posts:616
:: Quote ::
Subject: Hvala
It remainds me a bit Sardinian men or even Mexican Mariachi.

For us northeners it's a bit difficult to call so beautiful singing a folk tradition.

Here a man is quite a rough creature.

By the way in the Estonian North-East, were my roots are, there was also not so big difference between male and female tradition. They just adjusted the words to their personal background and sang it.

About epics (I'm no expert, but):
[en.wikipedia.org]

I know, that you don't want to be put together with Serbs (and Slovenians), but they say:
"The Theme, focuses on the repetitions in content that appear in ancient epic. Parry writes that the same theme can be expressed by many different formulas, and analyzes several examples from Serbo-Croatian poetry to demonstrate his points."
October 09, 2009 03:09PM
mrgud

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Posts:29
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: klapa singing
Thanks Timo for all your comments. Rough or not rough I am quite enjoying , not only your vocal singing or rock music but also language itself. Although we have no connection with mexicans :D klapa singing is calm singing.

Most rough singing I presented on ohter post with "oy" singers. As for tradition, besides the fact that our balkan spoken languages are very similar, generaly speaking, especially croatian and serbian, religion, letters , music and culture are more different. Most folk music that is in common is result of nation mixing due long period of turkish presence.

Most "epic" songs and music you mentioned, if you ask me, you can find in macedonian-bulgarian folk songs. Search on youtube for "kaba gaida" (torupil) or songs like "zajdi zajdi" and "jovano jovanke". Kaba gaida is bulgarian and macedonian bagpipe with almost most beautiful sound among bagpipes. The folk tradition is that 100 players plays kaba gaida in order to repel evil spirits. [img][/img]

I hope on next post , you can do something for me :D
I will provide one or two very interesting (for me thou) estonian male singing songs and you can, if you are so kind provide text of the songs.

Can it be done?
October 09, 2009 04:29PM
vana Timo
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: klapa singing
Küsija suu peale ei lööda.
You may always ask anything.
October 11, 2009 11:45PM
mrgud

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Posts:29
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: klapa singing
Thanks Timo.
Well there are not much video tracks to be found on strictly male singing. This video I found on "janespoiss" channel and seems it is sung by Lauri and maybe some of your guys.
This melody I have been wistiling by myself for last few days. Hope you can help me with lyrics for this one. How do you find so many lyrics you are posting around here? Where is the source?
October 15, 2009 10:18PM
Timo Kalmu









Posts:616
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: klapa singing
[meestelaul.metsatoll.ee]

I was wandering in Prussia.

(Chorus) Valeriivaleraavalerallallaaohhooisooisoo.

I went into a celebre pub.

(Chorus) Valeriivaleraavalerallallaaohhooisooisoo.

There a maid was sitting on a chair.

(Chorus) Valeriivaleraavalerallallaaohhooisooisoo.

She had a glass of sugar-spirit in her hand.

(Chorus) Valeriivaleraavalerallallaaohhooisooisoo.

What costs a glass of sugar-spirit?

(Chorus) Valeriivaleraavalerallallaaohhooisooisoo.

Twenty copecks.

(Chorus) Valeriivaleraavalerallallaaohhooisooisoo.

Then give me a glass.

(Chorus) Valeriivaleraavalerallallaaohhooisooisoo.

I'll drink to my fathers honour.

(Chorus) Valeriivaleraavalerallallaaohhooisooisoo.

And give me another glass.

(Chorus) Valeriivaleraavalerallallaaohhooisooisoo.

I'll drink that to my mothers honour.

(Chorus) Valeriivaleraavalerallallaaohhooisooisoo.

And give me the third glass.

(Chorus) Valeriivaleraavalerallallaaohhooisooisoo.

I'll drink that to my brothers honour.

(Chorus) Valeriivaleraavalerallallaaohhooisooisoo.

And give me the FIFTH glass.

(Chorus) Valeriivaleraavalerallallaaohhooisooisoo.

I'll drink that to my sisters honour.

(Chorus) Valeriivaleraavalerallallaaohhooisooisoo.

And give me the sixth glass.

(Chorus) Valeriivaleraavalerallallaaohhooisooisoo.

I'll drink that to myself.

(Chorus) Valeriivaleraavalerallallaaohhooisooisoo.

My bill will remain not payed.

(Chorus) Valeriivaleraavalerallallaaohhooisooisoo.

The rouble and twenty copecks.

(Chorus) Valeriivaleraavalerallallaaohhooisooisoo.
October 16, 2009 03:35PM
mrgud

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Posts:29
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: klapa singing
Thanks Timo,I like that tune very much :D

Does "Valeriivaleraavalerallallaaohhooisooisoo" means something??? Or is it just saying? like lala?

Is it possible to see the text in estonain original? I like to feel the laguage,to get the meaning.
October 16, 2009 08:46PM
Lauri Õunapuu

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Posts:1966
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: klapa singing
mrgud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Does "Valeriivaleraavalerallallaaohhooisooisoo"
> means something??? Or is it just saying? like
> lala?
>

It is just like "lalalala", probably came from celtic: "val de rah" refrain with sailors..

> Is it possible to see the text in estonian
> original? I like to feel the laguage,to get the
> meaning.

[meestelaul.metsatoll.ee]

..and, "MrGud", be so kind, for others, who would be interested in those topics, please, post different themes in different topics! It would be also better to follow..

:t2iestnbbb:

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Lauri Õunapuu
lauri[ät]metsatoll.ee
+372 56155559
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
October 16, 2009 10:25PM
mrgud

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Posts:29
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: klapa singing
As soon something pops my mind I will do so.
If no one else opens nothing :)
October 16, 2009 10:56PM
Lauri Õunapuu

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Posts:1966
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: klapa singing
mrgud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How do you find so many lyrics you
> are posting around here? Where is the source?
>

In head

:) If You'd post all songs, what Timo can sing, there would be no end of this bloody forum. ;)

Only some songs, what are more interesting, and if someone asks in our singing sessions and club-events, are posted here..

take also look here: [www.myspace.com]

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Lauri Õunapuu
lauri[ät]metsatoll.ee
+372 56155559
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October 16, 2009 10:58PM
Timo Kalmu









Posts:616
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: klapa singing
I know, that it's not polite to hand over private correspondence, but I think, that the following information is important for understanding Klapa:

Klapa is popular singing as it is polyphonic singing. It is "new" tradition, influenced from italian "a capella" singing.
Alhough it is present here in past times,widely popular became in first half on 20th century with full range of singers when almost every little town has its own klapa. Before that period klapa was present but with use of lower diverse of tones (baritons etc..)Klapa was "invented" by glagolic monestary brotherhood in medieval period.Of course I can not present pre-modern klapa songs as they are not preserved.

Glagolic would be old croatian letters developed in 9th century by slavic tribes and in use until 19th century. In 16th century latinic letters are started to be implemented.
[hr.wikipedia.org]

Origin is only in croatian , sorry
[hr.wikipedia.org]
-----------------------------------

Most arhaic of croatian singing is called "ganga" singing. It is still alive in rural areas. They are short,about one minute and it live in way you like - in folks,rather than on stage. Peronally I do not like nor I can identify myself with it. You can't hear it on radio due its unpopularity as labeled as primitive singing.But sure can post some amateur footage if asked by you or others.

---------------------------------------
I can also post Lika singers, croatian or serbian or even macedonian, but they are no strictly male singing without instrument acompanient.
Of course if any interest is shown.Slovenia has no tradition in male singing.
October 27, 2009 02:06PM
Lauri Õunapuu

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Posts:1966
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: klapa singing
Thanks!

Any explanation of non-every-day's business is always good! ;)

(eating cheese in Switzerland)

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Lauri Õunapuu
lauri[ät]metsatoll.ee
+372 56155559
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October 28, 2009 02:44PM
Lauri Õunapuu

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Posts:1966
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: klapa singing
Quote:
-------------------------------------------->Slovenia has no
> tradition in male singing.

a good and wise friend, Tomi, from Slovenia wrote:

Well, I wouldn't say that... depends what you mena by male singing. Slovenia has very decent tradition of small male choirs (octet is very popular) singing together, but also of vomen choirs. It is true, however, that in some strongly patriarhaic societies, like in Mediteranean countries, where women were excluded from most of public appearances and activities, there is a stronger tradition of specifical male groups (similar to Dalmatian "klapa", or "a capella" singing, typically polifonic (Corsica, Sardinia, South Italy and France in general ... or trallaleri of Genoa

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Lauri Õunapuu
lauri[ät]metsatoll.ee
+372 56155559
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
October 28, 2009 08:00PM
mrgud

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Posts:29
:: Quote ::
Subject: Re: klapa singing
Slovenia is most close country to Croatia in many ways and has rich folk tradition, but slovenian oktet as you mentioned is "a capella" form of singing developed in 1950's by slovenians that,among other moved to USA and there formed oktet singing in respect of fatherland. It is popular singing and therefore I think not traditional,surely not arhaic. Although on first sight similar to klapa singing, tradition is quite different, as I wrote to Timo and he posted klapa's history.As your slovenian friend noted male singing is more closer to partriarhaic countries or better to say areas or regions.Slovenia is surely not patriarhaic but quite modern.

Slovenian oktet:



In that manner you may note that Slovenia has tradition in yodl singing, but as yodl singing is connected with Alps and native folks, can we say that yodl singing is traditional and is it slovenian?

Slovenian yodlers with modern arrangement:



Seems we are getting little bit lost now.
October 28, 2009 11:31PM
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